DUST Search - Easing in the Casual Audience [Feedback/Idea/Suggestion]

Cross Atu wrote:

Overlord Ulath wrote:

Cross Atu wrote:

A mode that allows for training with limited skills/gear could make a great addition to the tutorial aspect of the game but I am extremely wary of making it a permanent (aka instantly repeatable) part of Dust. Loss, or more specifically the risk of loss within a persistent universe, is a centerpiece of this game and without that capstone much of the rest of the game begins to pale or outright fall by the wayside. Now if something were implemented as described in the OP but with a limited number of matches per character as a lifetime cap (see Star Craft II for one example of this method being used as training) that could be a viable option. Rewards or not would at that point become moot allowing the suspension of rewards to be relaxed.

Many of the aspects of the problem in general could also be addressed by a more sophisticated matchmaking process.
You no longer have vets in proto gear stomping new players if you no longer spawn vets with proto gear into the same random matches as new players. A dynamic matchmaking system would also be compatible with a limited training mode as described above.

Re: Rangers 3 points.

Agreed something like this needs to be present, at minimum in a YouTube format with in game links provided (but better if it were fully in game).
I'm sure lots of people will hate me for saying this but a full on VR training mode that lets you play with anything in the game without spending the ISK or SP to get it is quite a poor idea indeed. Again the risk/loss mechanic is at the heart of Dust and allowing people to play 100% risk free with everything and not have to even spend the time to earn the ISK and SP to unlock it in the first place? That's taking a knife to the longevity of the game. The ill effects of this are made manifold if you further allow multiplayer within this "VR". A god mode by any other name is still a god mode and if you give the option to play the game without risk you'll suck population out of many legit matches, doubly so when you give the free pass to use all gear without effort or investment.
This could also be accomplished via a higher quality matchmaking system, even so I see no reason why there shouldn't be selectable matches of this kind implemented. Indeed with the present ISK awards mechanic a militia only match would already be a lower payout so the coding to do this should be relatively minimal.

New player experience is very important, and a key aspect of that is indeed giving those players the space to learn the game without facing corp squads in proto gear. But this laudable goal needs to be attained without reducing/removing risk elements from the game in general.

0.02 ISK
Cross

Just a side thought here. Give people a certain limited amount of a side currency upon starting the game that is only obtained by poor performance in real combat. This currency is only used for gaining access to these training matches. This would allow people who are doing poorly in their current playstyle to try out other approaches. Players might also petition for more of this currency by submitting player stats to CCP and pleading their case, perhaps in a new section of the character stats menu.

The means of setting up a system which could properly gauge poor performance would be difficult, I am fully aware of that, but it would give you what you request Cross in nullifying the ability to access this game mode for players who already have the skill to play the main game with little to no difficulty. Of course this would have to incorporate many things, such as points healed, number revived, assists, kills, deaths, total damage received, ground covered, individual clone life expectancy, time spent on turrets or in vehicles, etc. Pretty much every aspect of the game and how you do would have to be recorded and available for this to work. Not sure if there would be an easier way to do this. Any thoughts Cross?

The thought I have is a bit less elegant than what you propose but it would also be much easier to implement.
That thought being establish a simple upper limit on total character SP, thus allowing those new to the game to play inside a more normalized context for a time while they build up their understanding and player skill.

Of course this would still require a properly robust matchmaking system for the general quick match system, but honestly I think that matchmaking system is important in its own right so I don't see the need for it as a downside.

Using a SP limit factor would also allow for more rapid on the fly adjustment of the participation threshold to fined/maintain proper balance. The key feature, I think, is to provide a little more breathing room for new players to find their feet but not too deeply isolate or alter their experience of the game itself so as to avoid entering the general matches causing them to feel disheartened or frustrated. As long as the players they're matched against are of a roughly equivalent experience that seems to me to be the optimal range.

Does that seem to satisfy the needs you see in this context or have I overlooked something?

Cheers,
Cross


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Overlord Ulath Doomheim 85	Posted - 2012.12.30 21:39:00 - [1] - Quote Problem: Casual gamers come in, see how complex this game is, get trounced by vets in proto gear, and leave never to return. I know the whole "HTFU" and "Adapt or Die" BS responses. Those neither help anything or contribute in any way. Please leave those pathetic "responses" (if you can even call them that) at the door. Potential Solution: Introduced a game mode with locked skills and dropsuit choices (making you play with a certain skill level set and certain dropsuit choices) that you can only play a certain number of times a dayand receive no gains and incur no losses. Reasoning: This would allow casual gamers a way to get used to DUST 514 game play without having to jump right into things like fittings and such. They could play 5 or 6 games in this "Promo Mode" if you will, and this would allow them to see how different this is from other shooters. There they can get a feel for how weapons fire, how installations work, how to hack, how to run the basics of a match before they compete for real ISK and SP. It would also allow newcomers a means of getting a feel for how this game is intended to be played. They could see how players have to work together to achieve a win, and would give them some insight into how important squads are and how important supporting your team is. In addition it would keep new players from all congregating in one section of DUST and not exploring out side of their bubble. Giving them a limited number of plays in this game mode would force them to step into the real game if they wish to keep playing, and introduce them to the wonders of fitting choices and skill progression. Since they gain nothing by playing here they would have no reason to stay any longer than necessary anyway, but forcing them out into the rest of the game would be a must for those who are highly skilled and just wish to trounce weak newcomers all day as they are trying to learn the ropes Lastly, it would allow new players a means of trying out different roles so they can see which role best fits their playstyle. People who wish to try a heavy fit without investing a lot of time and SP into it could do so without risk. Same goes for any fit, module, or weapon. You should be able to test them out without risk. Any feedback would be appreciated. EDIT Perhaps SOME reward might be in order if they are limited to a certain number of matches a day. Perhaps a nice sized chunk of ISK if you use up all of your game mode plays each day. This would encourage regular players to return here so that new players have someone to play with. Just a side thought.
Overlord Ulath Doomheim 85	Posted - 2012.12.30 22:45:00 - [2] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: A mode that allows for training with limited skills/gear could make a great addition to the tutorial aspect of the game but I am extremely wary of making it a permanent (aka instantly repeatable) part of Dust. Loss, or more specifically the risk of loss within a persistent universe, is a centerpiece of this game and without that capstone much of the rest of the game begins to pale or outright fall by the wayside. Now if something were implemented as described in the OP but with a limited number of matches per character as a lifetime cap (see Star Craft II for one example of this method being used as training) that could be a viable option. Rewards or not would at that point become moot allowing the suspension of rewards to be relaxed. Many of the aspects of the problem in general could also be addressed by a more sophisticated matchmaking process. You no longer have vets in proto gear stomping new players if you no longer spawn vets with proto gear into the same random matches as new players. A dynamic matchmaking system would also be compatible with a limited training mode as described above. Re: Rangers 3 points. Agreed something like this needs to be present, at minimum in a YouTube format with in game links provided (but better if it were fully in game). I'm sure lots of people will hate me for saying this but a full on VR training mode that lets you play with anything in the game without spending the ISK or SP to get it is quite a poor idea indeed. Again the risk/loss mechanic is at the heart of Dust and allowing people to play 100% risk free with everything and not have to even spend the time to earn the ISK and SP to unlock it in the first place? That's taking a knife to the longevity of the game. The ill effects of this are made manifold if you further allow multiplayer within this "VR". A god mode by any other name is still a god mode and if you give the option to play the game without risk you'll suck population out of many legit matches, doubly so when you give the free pass to use all gear without effort or investment. This could also be accomplished via a higher quality matchmaking system, even so I see no reason why there shouldn't be selectable matches of this kind implemented. Indeed with the present ISK awards mechanic a militia only match would already be a lower payout so the coding to do this should be relatively minimal. New player experience is very important, and a key aspect of that is indeed giving those players the space to learn the game without facing corp squads in proto gear. But this laudable goal needs to be attained without reducing/removing risk elements from the game in general. 0.02 ISK Cross Just a side thought here. Give people a certain limited amount of a side currency upon starting the game that is only obtained by poor performance in real combat. This currency is only used for gaining access to these training matches. This would allow people who are doing poorly in their current playstyle to try out other approaches. Players might also petition for more of this currency by submitting player stats to CCP and pleading their case, perhaps in a new section of the character stats menu. The means of setting up a system which could properly gauge poor performance would be difficult, I am fully aware of that, but it would give you what you request Cross in nullifying the ability to access this game mode for players who already have the skill to play the main game with little to no difficulty. Of course this would have to incorporate many things, such as points healed, number revived, assists, kills, deaths, total damage received, ground covered, individual clone life expectancy, time spent on turrets or in vehicles, etc. Pretty much every aspect of the game and how you do would have to be recorded and available for this to work. Not sure if there would be an easier way to do this. Any thoughts Cross?
Overlord Ulath Doomheim 85	Posted - 2012.12.31 11:57:00 - [3] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Overlord Ulath wrote: Cross Atu wrote: A mode that allows for training with limited skills/gear could make a great addition to the tutorial aspect of the game but I am extremely wary of making it a permanent (aka instantly repeatable) part of Dust. Loss, or more specifically the risk of loss within a persistent universe, is a centerpiece of this game and without that capstone much of the rest of the game begins to pale or outright fall by the wayside. Now if something were implemented as described in the OP but with a limited number of matches per character as a lifetime cap (see Star Craft II for one example of this method being used as training) that could be a viable option. Rewards or not would at that point become moot allowing the suspension of rewards to be relaxed. Many of the aspects of the problem in general could also be addressed by a more sophisticated matchmaking process. You no longer have vets in proto gear stomping new players if you no longer spawn vets with proto gear into the same random matches as new players. A dynamic matchmaking system would also be compatible with a limited training mode as described above. Re: Rangers 3 points. Agreed something like this needs to be present, at minimum in a YouTube format with in game links provided (but better if it were fully in game). I'm sure lots of people will hate me for saying this but a full on VR training mode that lets you play with anything in the game without spending the ISK or SP to get it is quite a poor idea indeed. Again the risk/loss mechanic is at the heart of Dust and allowing people to play 100% risk free with everything and not have to even spend the time to earn the ISK and SP to unlock it in the first place? That's taking a knife to the longevity of the game. The ill effects of this are made manifold if you further allow multiplayer within this "VR". A god mode by any other name is still a god mode and if you give the option to play the game without risk you'll suck population out of many legit matches, doubly so when you give the free pass to use all gear without effort or investment. This could also be accomplished via a higher quality matchmaking system, even so I see no reason why there shouldn't be selectable matches of this kind implemented. Indeed with the present ISK awards mechanic a militia only match would already be a lower payout so the coding to do this should be relatively minimal. New player experience is very important, and a key aspect of that is indeed giving those players the space to learn the game without facing corp squads in proto gear. But this laudable goal needs to be attained without reducing/removing risk elements from the game in general. 0.02 ISK Cross Just a side thought here. Give people a certain limited amount of a side currency upon starting the game that is only obtained by poor performance in real combat. This currency is only used for gaining access to these training matches. This would allow people who are doing poorly in their current playstyle to try out other approaches. Players might also petition for more of this currency by submitting player stats to CCP and pleading their case, perhaps in a new section of the character stats menu. The means of setting up a system which could properly gauge poor performance would be difficult, I am fully aware of that, but it would give you what you request Cross in nullifying the ability to access this game mode for players who already have the skill to play the main game with little to no difficulty. Of course this would have to incorporate many things, such as points healed, number revived, assists, kills, deaths, total damage received, ground covered, individual clone life expectancy, time spent on turrets or in vehicles, etc. Pretty much every aspect of the game and how you do would have to be recorded and available for this to work. Not sure if there would be an easier way to do this. Any thoughts Cross? The thought I have is a bit less elegant than what you propose but it would also be much easier to implement. That thought being establish a simple upper limit on total character SP, thus allowing those new to the game to play inside a more normalized context for a time while they build up their understanding and player skill. Of course this would still require a properly robust matchmaking system for the general quick match system, but honestly I think that matchmaking system is important in its own right so I don't see the need for it as a downside. Using a SP limit factor would also allow for more rapid on the fly adjustment of the participation threshold to fined/maintain proper balance. The key feature, I think, is to provide a little more breathing room for new players to find their feet but not too deeply isolate or alter their experience of the game itself so as to avoid entering the general matches causing them to feel disheartened or frustrated. As long as the players they're matched against are of a roughly equivalent experience that seems to me to be the optimal range. Does that seem to satisfy the needs you see in this context or have I overlooked something? Cheers, Cross It seems this thread is advancing in spite of our posts rather than because of them. Matchmaking is and will always be an issue until full release because there are a very limited number of beta testers compared to the number of players who will be around once full release finally rolls our way. Even still, I think it should be possible to access a stat locked match if you are having trouble in the main game. Perhaps just decrease the number of locked matches you can play from the starting point of say 15 a week and have it end in a soft cap of say 1-3 matches per week with no roll over based on your SP total. Do you suppose that might ease things along?